Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:00 Post subject: hmm. pricey pinouts
After buying the pin-outs I'll have enough to buy a coffee in NY.
Any discounts on the pin-outs..? I only have one case.
perhaps Jeremy wants to tackle this one, for the money + a lil more ...
VS. buying the pin-outs as a very likely one-shot-deal..
Pinouts.ru is interesting though... You Russians know how to have fun and hack gear proper! They got some cool pics online, with tackling Hard Drive issues.. and platter swaps... klass!
You know whats kinda funny? To this day the Flash extractor has made me No Money.
I haven't been able to get anywhere near completing any case... Its too complicated.
I own it but seems as if I have to keep paying. even if I buy the pinout lol, what do I do then?
jeremyb
Joined: 09 Dec 2008 Posts: 1950
Location: RecoverMyFlashDrive.com Bridgeport, CT, USA
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:12 Post subject:
lol, its cheaper for you to buy the pin-outs than have me work on it. Although, honestly I kind of want to remove the ceramic and see whats inside one of these MS.. Its strange, sometimes its a regular drive, other times its an all-in-one silicon IC (especially with MicroSD). We see so few MS.
FlashNYC wrote:
You know whats kinda funny? To this day the Flash extractor has made me No Money.I haven't been able to get anywhere near completing any case... Its too complicated. I own it but seems as if I have to keep paying. even if I buy the pinout lol, what do I do then?
It's funny, I hear this allot!!!
I get decent results with it.. other times I must make my own assembler.. other times a hybrid (eg: use my own app and plug results into VT). Few people want to learn how to use it.. Even though its complex its by far the easiest solution out there. "Official Solutions" are still very incomplete. Also i'm starting to see cases where by FE can assemble the data region but not the FAT region, so I get mixed results on the recovery.. In these cases I must make my own assembler.. but since SS doesn't share XOR's I need to ration my time depending on the popularity of the drive.
Our problem is people say, all that $$$ to recover a $8 flash drive.. In reality it cost ~$250,000 to $1Million to bring the drive to market, so yeah, its going to cost more than $8 to figure out how it works. Unfortunately sergey's tools are very popular in the USA so there is a lot of competition and slim margin for profit..
lol, its cheaper for you to buy the pin-outs than have me work on it. Although, honestly I kind of want to remove the ceramic and see whats inside one of these MS.. Its strange, sometimes its a regular drive, other times its an all-in-one silicon IC (especially with MicroSD). We see so few MS.
I saw this one hardcore dude on youtube sniffing encrypted ICs... Sim Cards.. Sat Cards... and the likes of that... using pin probes... drills and a bunch of other star trek meets the dentist office.. tools..
Envious... Not on the illegal side... but the ability to reverse it is quite a challenge and a serious accomplishment..
I'm still quite amazed you sorted out Sandisk.. I thought you told me way back it was impossible.. how about tackling APPLES next?
jeremyb
Joined: 09 Dec 2008 Posts: 1950
Location: RecoverMyFlashDrive.com Bridgeport, CT, USA
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:33 Post subject:
FlashNYC wrote:
I saw this one hardcore dude on youtube sniffing encrypted ICs... Sim Cards.. Sat Cards... and the likes of that... using pin probes... drills and a bunch of other star trek meets the dentist office.. tools..
We built a new lab to do this kind of work, no dentist tools, very star trek though We can work on traces down to 10um, sadly that's still not accurate enough for some IC devices but as-long-as the wirebond's are intact we're good.
FlashNYC wrote:
Envious... Not on the illegal side... but the ability to reverse it is quite a challenge and accomplishment..
It is, but trick is getting people to pay for it.
FlashNYC wrote:
I'm still quite amazed you sorted out Sandisk.. I thought you told me way back it was impossible.. how about tackling APPLES next?
Encrypted SanDisk: NAND recovery isn't possible.. but 75% of encrypted SanDisk fail for other reasons.
XOR SanDisk are recoverable..
8bit/16bit Combo chips aren't recoverable (yet)
I saw this one hardcore dude on youtube sniffing encrypted ICs... Sim Cards.. Sat Cards... and the likes of that... using pin probes... drills and a bunch of other star trek meets the dentist office.. tools..
We built a new lab to do this kind of work, no dentist tools, very star trek though We can work on traces down to 10um, sadly that's still not accurate enough for some IC devices but as-long-as the wirebond's are intact we're good.
FlashNYC wrote:
Envious... Not on the illegal side... but the ability to reverse it is quite a challenge and accomplishment..
It is, but trick is getting people to pay for it.
FlashNYC wrote:
I'm still quite amazed you sorted out Sandisk.. I thought you told me way back it was impossible.. how about tackling APPLES next?
Encrypted SanDisk: NAND recovery isn't possible.. but 75% of encrypted SanDisk fail for other reasons.
XOR SanDisk are recoverable..
8bit/16bit Combo chips aren't recoverable (yet)
well the dude that was cracking encrypted chips like amtel.. he drilled down into the IC until he could place his pin probe to sniff out the key.... damn amazing.. I would figure you'd have to be working at intel's clean rooms to figure those tactics..
Your Lab sounds like fun. somehow i imagine you are referring to internal traces being burnt out,,, vs. Technician error.. but I'll keep that on the down-low.
I made some interesting jigs the past few months.. quite proud of myself.. i can probe ICs with pin-point accuracy. almost impossible to slip. I can apply the same technique to temp repair traces.. with the probability of adding capacitance and/or inductance..
Nonetheless it works well.
As for the prices.. yeah nobody these days wants to pay for recovery.
The funny thing is, the richer they are, the less likely they are willing to go forward with the recovery; while the middle-class are full-throttle.
The theory behind that one would make an economics professor break out into convulsions. lol
I still haven't figured out SanDisk Flash. I could imaging the algo is horrific. I think you got better demographics up in CT for R & D funding... Lucky you!
jeremyb
Joined: 09 Dec 2008 Posts: 1950
Location: RecoverMyFlashDrive.com Bridgeport, CT, USA
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:31 Post subject:
FlashNYC wrote:
well the dude that was cracking encrypted chips like amtel.. he drilled down into the IC until he could place his pin probe to sniff out the key.... damn amazing.. I would figure you'd have to be working at intel's clean rooms to figure those tactics..
We can do this type of work, but drills are to messy.
FlashNYC wrote:
I made some interesting jigs the past few months.. quite proud of myself.. i can probe ICs with pin-point accuracy. almost impossible to slip. I can apply the same technique to temp repair traces.. with the probability of adding capacitance and/or inductance.. Nonetheless it works well.
Very cool, making jigs is lots of fun, creating "stuff" and having it work from raw material is very satisfying
FlashNYC wrote:
As for the prices.. yeah nobody these days wants to pay for recovery.The funny thing is, the richer they are, the less likely they are willing to go forward with the recovery; while the middle-class are full-throttle.
The theory behind that one would make an economics professor break out into convulsions. lol
Guess it depends on how valuable the data is, but yeah.
well the dude that was cracking encrypted chips like amtel.. he drilled down into the IC until he could place his pin probe to sniff out the key.... damn amazing.. I would figure you'd have to be working at intel's clean rooms to figure those tactics..
We can do this type of work, but drills are to messy.
FlashNYC wrote:
I made some interesting jigs the past few months.. quite proud of myself.. i can probe ICs with pin-point accuracy. almost impossible to slip. I can apply the same technique to temp repair traces.. with the probability of adding capacitance and/or inductance.. Nonetheless it works well.
Very cool, making jigs is lots of fun, creating "stuff" and having it work from raw material is very satisfying
FlashNYC wrote:
As for the prices.. yeah nobody these days wants to pay for recovery.The funny thing is, the richer they are, the less likely they are willing to go forward with the recovery; while the middle-class are full-throttle.
The theory behind that one would make an economics professor break out into convulsions. lol
Guess it depends on how valuable the data is, but yeah.
Yeah I'm not saying that drill/grinder bits are the best route... just in that in that demonstration, he used grinder drill bits on a bench; and i think some choice acids... to get to the level he wanted.
As for the jigs, yeah lots of fun. I'm sure you know how useful they can be and implemented for jobs.. endless possibilities..
Imagine walking into a doctors office and before you open your mouth to speak, he's like "take this, and call me in the morning..."
Once you got that sorted, intake can be accepted 10 fold, with no need for a bigger staff, just more processing comps; and a hot receptionist, who plays rugby!
In these cases I must make my own assembler.. but since SS doesn't share XOR's I need to ration my time depending on the popularity of the drive.
We can work on traces down to 10um, sadly that's still not accurate enough for some IC devices but as-long-as the wirebond's are intact we're good.
